A “2 GUYS” COUNTDOWN: The 10 Best Trades in Mets History (And We’ll Need Your Help!)

Editorial_snowJimmy:

Mike, it could be another long winter. What the hell are we going to blog about?

Mike:

How about we try to figure out how the Mets can win in 2014 and also cut overall payroll from 2013 levels.  Sorry, being silly, that couldn’t happen, right?

Jimmy:

I’m thinking we could create a regular feature, like we did a year ago with our all-time “2 Guys” team, where we discuss the Mets all-time greatest trades. Not just a list, but we can examine them — in our own half-assed way, of course.

Mike:

Sure and let me get the ball rolling with one of the best trades in Mets history that rarely gets discussed. Lorinda deRoulet for Nelson Doubleday. We could sure use another deal like that.

Jimmy:

Boom! I like it. I’ve been meaning to mention this, but it seems like a good time of year for us to take a week off. What do you think? Let the rumor mill churn without us. Let someone else write the Mike Baxter Requiem.

Mike:

Most_Ambitious_Turnaround_Project_Yet_for__Bar_Rescue_I don’t know, I’ve got so much to say about Baxter. He once caught a fly ball, you know. But I do have a backlog of Bar Rescue sitting on my DVR, so a week off would be useful. Let’s do it.

Jimmy:

Okay, it’s a deal. So here they are, Dear Faithful Reader, the top 32 candidates for all-time best trades in Mets history, chronologically. Which do you think should make our top ten? Leave a comment below. Remember, if you don’t vote, you can’t complain!

* November 28, 1961: New York Mets trade Gus Bell and cash to the Milwaukee Braves for Frank Thomas and Rick Herrscher.

* October 19, 1965: New York Mets trade Tom Parsons and cash to the Houston Astros for Jerry Grote.

* December 15, 1967: New York Mets trade Tommy Davis, Jack Fisher, Billy Wynne and Dick Booker to the Chicago White Sox for Tommie Agee and Al Weis.

* June 15, 1969: New York Mets trade Jay Carden, David Colon, Kevin Collins and Steve Renko to the Montreal Expos for Donn Clendenon.

* April 5, 1972: New York Mets trade Ken Singleton, Tim Foli and Mike Jorgensen to the Montreal Expos for Rusty Staub.

* November 2, 1972: New York Mets trade Danny Frisella and Gary Gentry to the Atlanta Braves for Felix Millan and George Stone.

* May 11, 1972: New York Mets trade Charlie Williams to the San Francisco Giants for Willie Mays.

* December 3, 1974: New York Mets traded Don Hahn, Tug McGraw, Dave Schneck to the Philadelphia Phillies for John Stearns, Mac Scarce, and Del Unser.

* February 28, 1975: New York Mets send cash to the San Francisco Giants for Dave Kingman.

* December 8, 1978: New York Mets trade Jerry Koosman to Minnesota for Greg Field and Jesse Orosco.

* April 1, 1982: New York Mets traded Lee Mazzilli to the Texas Rangers for Ron Darling and Walt Terrell.

* December 16, 1982: New York Mets traded Jason Felice, Lloyd McClendon, and Charlie Puelo to the Cincinnati Reds for Tom Seaver.

* June 15, 1983: New York Mets trade Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey to the St. Louis Cardinals for Keith Hernandez.

* December 8, 1983: New York Mets trade Bob Bailor and Carlos Diaz to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Sid Fernandez and Ross Jones.

* August 28, 1984: New York Mets trade Gerald Young, Manuel Lee and Mitch Cook to the Houston Astros for Ray Knight.

* December 7, 1984: New York Mets trade Walt Terrell to the Detroit Tigers for Howard Johnson.

* December 10, 1984: New York Mets trade Hubie Brooks, Mike Fitzgerald, Herm Winningham and Floyd Youmans to the Montreal Expos for Gary Carter.

* November 13, 1985: New York Mets trade John Christensen, Wes Gardner, Calvin Schiraldi and LaSchelle Tarver to the Boston Red Sox for Bob Ojeda, Chris Bayer, Tom McCarthy and John Mitchell.

* December 11, 1986: New York Mets trade Kevin Armstrong, Kevin Brown, Shawn Abner, Stan Jefferson, and Kevin Mitchell to the San Diego Padres for Kevin McReynolds, Adam Ging, and Gene Walter.

* March 27, 1987: New York Mets trade Ed Hearn, Rick Anderson and Mauro Gozzo to the Kansas City Royals for David Cone.

* December 20, 1996: New York Mets trade Robert Person to the Toronto Blue Jays for John Olerud.

* August 8, 1997: New York Mets trade Lance Johnson, Mark Clark, and Manny Alexander to the Chicago Cubs for Turk Wendell, Mel Rojas and Brian McRae.

* February 8, 1998: New York Mets trade Jesus Sanchez, A. J. Burnett and Robert Stratton to the Florida Marlins for Al Leiter.

* May 22, 1998: New York Mets trade Preston Wilson, Geoff Goetz and Ed Yarnell to the Florida Marlins for Mike Piazza.

* July 23, 1999: New York Mets trade Terrence Long and Leo Vasquez to the Oakland A’s for Kenny Rogers.

* December 23, 1999: New York Mets trade Roger Cedeno, Octavio Dotel, and Kyle Kessel to the Houston for Mike Hampton and Derek Bell.

* November 24, 2005: New York Mets trade Grant Psomas, Mike Jacobs and Yusmeiro Petit to the Florida Marlins for Carlos Delgado.

* December 5, 2005: New York Mets trade Dante Brinkley and Gaby Hernandez to the Florida Marlins for Paul LoDuca.

* February 2, 2008: Deolis Guerra, Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber and Kevin Mulvey to the Minnesota Twins for Johan Santana.

* July 28, 2011: New York Mets trade Carlos Beltran and cash to the San Francisco Giants for Zack Wheeler.

* December 17, 2012: New York Mets trade R.A. Dickey, Josh Thole, and Mike Nickeas to the Toronto Blue Jays for Travis d’Arnaud, Noah Syndergaard and Wilmer Beccerra.

* August 27, 2013: New York Mets trade John Buck and Marlon Byrd to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Dilson Hererra and Vic Black.

Jimmy:

NOTE: We are serious about taking a small break. It feels like the right time of year for it (why should Sandy be the only one who relaxes all winter?) . So thanks for coming by, we are truly grateful for that, and we’ll be back in a week. 

 

 

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56 comments

  1. RealityChuck says:

    * October 19, 1965: New York Mets trade Tom Parsons and cash to the Houston Astros for Jerry Grote.

    * April 5, 1972: New York Mets trade Ken Singleton, Tim Foli and Mike Jorgensen to the Montreal Expos for Rusty Staub.

    * November 2, 1972: New York Mets trade Danny Frisella and Gary Gentry to the Atlanta Braves for Felix Millan and George Stone.

    * April 1, 1982: New York Mets traded Lee Mazzilli to the Texas Rangers for Ron Darling and Walt Terrell.

    * June 15, 1983: New York Mets trade Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey to the St. Louis Cardinals for Keith Hernandez.

    * December 7, 1984: New York Mets trade Walt Terrell to the Detroit Tigers for Howard Johnson.

    * December 10, 1984: New York Mets trade Hubie Brooks, Mike Fitzgerald, Herm Winningham and Floyd Youmans to the Montreal Expos for Gary Carter.

    * March 27, 1987: New York Mets trade Ed Hearn, Rick Anderson and Mauro Gozzo to the Kansas City Royals for David Cone.

    * May 22, 1998: New York Mets trade Preston Wilson, Geoff Goetz and Ed Yarnell to the Florida Marlins for Mike Piazza.

    * February 2, 2008: Deolis Guerra, Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber and Kevin Mulvey to the Minnesota Twins for Johan Santana.

    • Dan N. says:

      * October 19, 1965: New York Mets trade Tom Parsons and cash to the Houston Astros for Jerry Grote.
      * April 1, 1982: New York Mets traded Lee Mazzilli to the Texas Rangers for Ron Darling and Walt Terrell.
      * June 15, 1983: New York Mets trade Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey to the St. Louis Cardinals for Keith Hernandez.
      * December 8, 1983: New York Mets trade Bob Bailor and Carlos Diaz to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Sid Fernandez and Ross Jones.
      * August 28, 1984: New York Mets trade Gerald Young, Manuel Lee and Mitch Cook to the Houston Astros for Ray Knight.
      * December 10, 1984: New York Mets trade Hubie Brooks, Mike Fitzgerald, Herm Winningham and Floyd Youmans to the Montreal Expos for Gary Carter.
      * November 13, 1985: New York Mets trade John Christensen, Wes Gardner, Calvin Schiraldi and LaSchelle Tarver to the Boston Red Sox for Bob Ojeda, Chris Bayer, Tom McCarthy and John Mitchell.
      * March 27, 1987: New York Mets trade Ed Hearn, Rick Anderson and Mauro Gozzo to the Kansas City Royals for David Cone.
      * December 20, 1996: New York Mets trade Robert Person to the Toronto Blue Jays for John Olerud.
      * May 22, 1998: New York Mets trade Preston Wilson, Geoff Goetz and Ed Yarnell to the Florida Marlins for Mike Piazza.

  2. Eric/Eraff says:

    There are a few “Good trades” that stand out…. as a Baseball fan, the Singleton (Foli, Jorgenson) for Staub trade really stands out as a GREAT Baseball PLayer Trade. It ended up as a Classic NOW for LATER trade. Staub was as close to HOF as you could be without being HOF (Interesting article topic?…. Close, but NO Cigar!)…. Singleton went on to an Allstar Level Career…Foli and Jorggy played “parts” for several teams and Jorggy had some coaching time.

    The Kieth Hernandez trade was the Greatest Met Trade ever…. the string of trades that followed were great as well. It’s interesting that we seem to remember Kieth as the missing piece—he was actually the FIRST of the big trades…and “little trades that became big”.

    The “nice” baseball part of the trades—they involved players on both ends who became successful—they were Now For Later, Pitching for Parts and Bats….nice trades……. in Hernandez case, it was a case of a fallen player traded for “something”—he saved his career…maybe some candor by Kieth would eventually tie it all together.

    The Parts sent away in those transaction— Terrell, Brooks, Shiraldi had nice careers…… and the Mets were very lucky/Good with—-The Cone Trade can never be explained….. it was that one sided.

    June 15, 1983: New York Mets trade Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey to the St. Louis Cardinals for Keith Hernandez.

    December 8, 1983: New York Mets trade Bob Bailor and Carlos Diaz to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Sid Fernandez and Ross Jones.

    August 28, 1984: New York Mets trade Gerald Young, Manuel Lee and Mitch Cook to the Houston Astros for Ray Knight.

    December 7, 1984: New York Mets trade Walt Terrell to the Detroit Tigers for Howard Johnson.

    December 10, 1984: New York Mets trade Hubie Brooks, Mike Fitzgerald, Herm Winningham and Floyd Youmans to the Montreal Expos for Gary Carter.

    November 13, 1985: New York Mets trade John Christensen, Wes Gardner, Calvin Schiraldi and LaSchelle Tarver to the Boston Red Sox for Bob Ojeda, Chris Bayer, Tom McCarthy and John Mitchell.

    * March 27, 1987: New York Mets trade Ed Hearn, Rick Anderson and Mauro Gozzo to the Kansas City Royals for David Cone.

  3. Patrick Boegel says:

    * October 19, 1965: New York Mets trade Tom Parsons and cash to the Houston Astros for Jerry Grote.

    * December 15, 1967: New York Mets trade Tommy Davis, Jack Fisher, Billy Wynne and Dick Booker to the Chicago White Sox for Tommie Agee and Al Weis.

    * June 15, 1969: New York Mets trade Jay Carden, David Colon, Kevin Collins and Steve Renko to the Montreal Expos for Donn Clendenon.

    * December 8, 1978: New York Mets trade Jerry Koosman to Minnesota for Greg Field and Jesse Orosco.

    * April 1, 1982: New York Mets traded Lee Mazzilli to the Texas Rangers for Ron Darling and Walt Terrell.

    June 15, 1983: New York Mets trade Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey to the St. Louis Cardinals for Keith Hernandez.

    * December 8, 1983: New York Mets trade Bob Bailor and Carlos Diaz to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Sid Fernandez and Ross Jones.

    * March 27, 1987: New York Mets trade Ed Hearn, Rick Anderson and Mauro Gozzo to the Kansas City Royals for David Cone.

    * December 20, 1996: New York Mets trade Robert Person to the Toronto Blue Jays for John Olerud.

    * July 28, 2011: New York Mets trade Carlos Beltran and cash to the San Francisco Giants for Zack Wheeler.

  4. Alan K. says:

    Here’s my top ten.

    * October 19, 1965: New York Mets trade Tom Parsons and cash to the Houston Astros for Jerry Grote.
    * December 15, 1967: New York Mets trade Tommy Davis, Jack Fisher, Billy Wynne and Dick Booker to the Chicago White Sox for Tommie Agee and Al Weis.
    * June 15, 1969: New York Mets trade Jay Carden, David Colon, Kevin Collins and Steve Renko to the Montreal Expos for Donn Clendenon.
    * December 8, 1978: New York Mets trade Jerry Koosman to Minnesota for Greg Field and Jesse Orosco.
    * June 15, 1983: New York Mets trade Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey to the St. Louis Cardinals for Keith Hernandez.
    ** December 10, 1984: New York Mets trade Hubie Brooks, Mike Fitzgerald, Herm Winningham and Floyd Youmans to the Montreal Expos for Gary Carter.
    * March 27, 1987: New York Mets trade Ed Hearn, Rick Anderson and Mauro Gozzo to the Kansas City Royals for David Cone.
    * February 8, 1998: New York Mets trade Jesus Sanchez, A. J. Burnett and Robert Stratton to the Florida Marlins for Al Leiter.
    * May 22, 1998: New York Mets trade Preston Wilson, Geoff Goetz and Ed Yarnell to the Florida Marlins for Mike Piazza.
    * December 23, 1999: New York Mets trade Roger Cedeno, Octavio Dotel, and Kyle Kessel to the Houston for Mike Hampton and Derek

  5. ZAP says:

    July 30th, 2004: New York Mets trade Scott Kazmir for Kris Bensen. I think this should make the ALL TIME BEST TRADE LIST since entire METS organization was rooting for Bensen’s infidelity since his “Playboy” wife Anna Bensen was quoted as saying “I’ll have sex with the entire New York Mets organization if my husband cheated on me”.

  6. seaver73 says:

    Without a doubt, the (1) Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey for Keith Hernandez trade was the best trade in New York Met history, followed by (1) Tom Parsons and cash to the Houston Astros for Jerry Grote, (2) Lee Mazzili for Ron Darling and (effectively) Howard Johnson and (3) Ed Hearn, Rick Anderson and Mauro Gozzo to the Kansas City Royals for David Cone .*

  7. Eddie Wilkowski says:

    No doubt the Allen and Ownby for Hernandez has to be our best trade ever. Hernandez marked the beginning of a playing real baseball again in Flushing. Trading Mazzilli and getting back Darling and Terrrel who we turned in to Howard Johnson was remarkable. Hearn,Anderson and Gozzo for Cone is unreal. Bob Bailor and Carlos Diaz for Sid and Ross Jones. Getting Grote who was a stalworth for Tom Parsons. While it was sad to see Koosman traded we got Orosco. Wilson,Goetz and Yarnell for Piazza who was one our best players ever. The trades to get Staub and Carter were good but more in line with you have to give to get and we did.

  8. Michael Geus says:

    Thanks all, for the comments, and to everyone else, keep them coming.

    Great feedback.

  9. Brian Joura says:

    You’re kidding on some of these, right?

    Kevin McReynolds, Brian McRae, Kenny Rogers, Paul LoDuca — yuck

    How about the deals for Art Shamsky or Bernard Gilkey? Shoot, how about the one where we got Gil Hodges to be manager?

  10. Great comments, thanks. I’m actually in a hotel in Petaluma, CA, just checking in. I look forward to discussing our top ten in more detail. I was thinking about the Clendenon trade — and assessing trades in general — and the question I have is: Is it critical for the quality of the trade that the Mets traded 4 crummy players (sorry, Steve Renko) for the missing piece in the Miracle season. Without Clendenon, I don’t think they win it all, or it becomes much more in doubt. So if Renko ends up being better, does that really matter in our valuation of the trade? I guess, obviously, it sort of does. Or look at Keith or any other “good” trade. Was it necessary for Ownbey/Allen to be a busts for that to be a great trade? Or could it be argued that getting Syndergaard and d’Arnaud for Dickey was a great trade, almost regardless of how they ultimately turn out?

    Just asking questions. I’ve seen trades evaluated strickly by adding up WAR. That seems so wrong-minded to me, or at least too narrow, too incomplete a picture.

    In other words: What makes a great trade? Part of why Kazmir was so bad was the thought process that went into it. Same with flipping Cone without really exploring the market. That we got back Jeff Kent, a future MVP (for another team) and possible HOFer was actually pretty amazing.

    • Michael Geus says:

      Hopefully almost every trade starts with some amount of sound logic. One of the reasons Kazmir stands out so much was the overall motive was so shaky. As you once pointed out here, the Ryan/Fregosi trade had a logic behind it. Despite that, as things played out it became cringe inducing.

      http://2guystalkingmetsbaseball.com/the-nolan-ryan-trade-part-ii-what-future-superstar-will-the-mets-be-trading-away-this-time/

      The good ones are the ones that worked out in your favor, which could end up being luck as well as skill.

    • Michael Geus says:

      Why the assumption that Cone was traded to Toronto without being shopped? It was a deadline deal, Cone was headed to free agency, I believe he was marketed before that deal was executed.

      • According to the “Worst Team Money Could Buy,” he was not actively shopped. There were teams that were like, “Wait, what? Cone was available and you didn’t call?”

        That’s my memory, don’t have the book here. Could be wrong.

        • Michael Geus says:

          Interesting, thanks. I’ve never read it, for years the idea wasvtoo painful. I have to get to that book this offseason.

          • James Preller says:

            I enjoyed it very much, after time healed those wounds. I would need to look it up again — but I am in SF drinking Anchor Steams. I believe they were afraid of the media backlash,so Cone was not openly shopped.

        • Patrick Boegel says:

          That memory is correct, and also I would point out, Cone somehow passed through waivers. That deal was executed on August 27th 1992.

  11. Eraff says:

    Good “ASK” Jim….. take the Rusty Staub for Singleton, Foli and Jorgenson— By the time the 1973 Season rolled around, Singleton was every bit the player that Staub was…maybe better. Foli and Jorgenson combined for 2300 hits….Singleton had over 2000 hits, and he was an Allstar Level Player.

    I don’t think most fans look back on that trade as a Loser. All of these trades need a REASON—-the good ones. NOW for LATER—- ARM for BAT. PROBLEMS exchanged…..

    BTW…I’m lost on the YUCK comment re: Loduca, McReynolds, etc……MY Gosh—-don’t a SANDY ALDERSON: All players are imperfect! You’ve got to like Baseball players to like baseball! Loduca and McReynolds were Baseball PLayers— add two players of that level and some “fill” (more YUCK?), and you have a team here.

    • I think it was, perhaps, mistaking our long list as receiving our seal of approval. We just tried to collect the 30-35 candidates and through them out there — our top ten countdown will come from that. So to that point, “Yuck” was a very valid & useful opinion.

      The initial LoDuca trade that DePodesta pulled off in LA, now that’s a trade worth discussing. It turned the city against him, it was when he effectively lost the team, and yet on paper it does not (and did not) look like a bad deal. It’s the “intangibles” thing, a quality that some folks give huge value, and others hardly respect.

    • Brian Joura says:

      I like baseball players. I’m not a fan of guys who waste their talent or who care more about self-promotion than they do about maximizing their ability. Let’s go one by one:

      McReynolds – He had a boatload of talent but he would rather have been hunting or fishing. Here’s a quote from a Royals site: “Kevin McReynolds was known as a guy that didn’t want to work particularly hard at the game of baseball.”

      http://www.royalsreview.com/2007/8/13/102450/262

      To get him, we gave up a guy who went on to win the MVP Award and two recent first-round picks, including the #1 overall pick in the draft. It was an overpay at the time, it didn’t make the club better and it took away a much-needed fiery personality from the club.

      Imagine if we swapped outfielders today, got the worst one back in the deal AND gave up Cecchini and Dominic Smith, too.

      The Mets were fortunate that neither Abner nor Jefferson developed into anything or else this one would be on the Top 10 Worst deals list.

      LoDuca – Unlike McReynolds, he played with passion and got the most out of his abilities. Unfortunately, he had an overinflated sense of self, had sex with underage girls while married and threw his Latin teammates under the bus. Not sure why I should be thrilled to root for that. He didn’t cost much and was an asset in 2006. He was an anchor in 2007. Overall Shamsky contributed more.

      McRae – I’ve got nothing against him personally, but he contributed one good year to the Mets and two partial poor ones. He was hardly an upgrade over Lance Johsnon and there’s simply no way his 1998 season (along with whatever Turk Wendell contributed) comes close to matching what Bernard Gilkey gave the club in 1996.

      Rogers – Some try to argue that the Mets would not have won without Rogers down the stretch. He’s got a nice record but he also had tremendous run support in those games. In his five wins, the Mets scored 38 runs. They scored 15 more runs for him in two games where he got a no-decision. And of course there was his last game for the team and the bases-loaded walk.

      It’s a deal that looked acceptable at the time because a veteran starter in the stretch run is always nice to have. I’d say giving up a first-round pick for him was an overpay and given his overall contribution to the team, there’s no way I consider this one of the club’s best deals.

      • Patrick Boegel says:

        Ah the myth of Kevin McReynolds not caring if the Mets won or lost. See, just because fans are largely a breed of slightly overweight (like myself mind you) to very overweight ex athletes who could not actually play the game at a low level let alone a hight level we have the feigned outrage that when posed a question McReynolds could be sort of mid west zen about it.

        Now mind you, this gentleman who did not care whether the Mets won or lost absolutely pile drove Mike Scioscia, arguably the best overall defensive catcher at the time and certainly the best at blocking home plate, into the ground like a rag doll to score what was the go ahead and ultimately winning run of game 1 of the 1988 NLCS.

        That was a guy it looked to me rushing home to catch a large mouth or perhaps an early season buck. I mean, who wants to win by dropping shoulder into a wall when it is all on the line.

        Once in a while, when an athlete says something, consider the actual words, maybe even see the video of which there was tape of McReynolds answer to the question, with multiple reporters and teammates chuckling at his answer, because they “got it”, vs the one reporter who tried to morph it into a controversy.

        I’d glady take a Kevin McReynolds in his prime and plunk him in right and left field in 2014. By golly, he could even fish in the Hudson River if we wanted to, because it would make the Mets a better team.

  12. Piazza Fan says:

    * December 15, 1967: New York Mets trade Tommy Davis, Jack Fisher, Billy Wynne and Dick Booker to the Chicago White Sox for Tommie Agee and Al Weis.

    * June 15, 1969: New York Mets trade Jay Carden, David Colon, Kevin Collins and Steve Renko to the Montreal Expos for Donn Clendenon.

    * February 28, 1975: New York Mets send cash to the San Francisco Giants for Dave Kingman.

    * April 1, 1982: New York Mets traded Lee Mazzilli to the Texas Rangers for Ron Darling and Walt Terrell.

    * June 15, 1983: New York Mets trade Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey to the St. Louis Cardinals for Keith Hernandez.

    * December 7, 1984: New York Mets trade Walt Terrell to the Detroit Tigers for Howard Johnson.

    * March 27, 1987: New York Mets trade Ed Hearn, Rick Anderson and Mauro Gozzo to the Kansas City Royals for David Cone.

    * December 20, 1996: New York Mets trade Robert Person to the Toronto Blue Jays for John Olerud.

    * May 22, 1998: New York Mets trade Preston Wilson, Geoff Goetz and Ed Yarnell to the Florida Marlins for Mike Piazza.

    * November 24, 2005: New York Mets trade Grant Psomas, Mike Jacobs and Yusmeiro Petit to the Florida Marlins for Carlos Delgado.

  13. Stubby says:

    Somebody beat me to it, but the best trade the Mets ever made–hands down–was getting Gil Hodges from the Senators for Bill Denehy and cash (11/27/67).

    Another of our best trades was Richie Hebner to Detroit (10/31/79). Doesn’t even matter what we brought back (Morales and Mankowski). Just getting Hebner off the team was a huge gain for the Mets.

    Harry Chiti for Harry Chiti was pretty good, too.

    From your list, I’d probably go with the trade that brought Agee and Wies to NY. There are few trades where you can say even the “throw in” was pivotal.

    After that, I’d put the 3 catcher deals. I think I’d put the Grote deal first among them, then Piazza, then the Kid. Mainly because we gave up nothing for Grote, very little for Piazza, and a bit more for Carter.

    The Hernandez trade probably comes next. Though Beltran was Wheeler could overtake it in time. Certainly the Wheeler deal was one of the smartest moves we’ve made in a long time. Beltran was going to walk and we got what looks to be a high 2 for the rotation. Mazzilli for Darling & Terrell next. Then the Cone deal.

    That’s as far as I can go with the list you offered, I think. But since you’ve included the Kingman purchase, I’d point to the purchases of Ron Taylor and Skip Lockwood as smooth moves. And lets not forget the purchase of Ron Hunt who was not only the first “home grown” Mets star and All Star starter but who also eventually turned into Agee and Weis.

    I’d rank the 1972 Staub trade as one of the Mets worst ever–not best. Nothing against Rusty, but we got fleeced on that one. Overpaid. Just ask Whitey Herzog. McReynolds for Mitchell belongs on the worst list as well.

    • Michael Geus says:

      I joked about deRoulet for Doubleday, obviously Hodges for Denehy is similar. Interesting how those non-player moves were instrumental to our two championships.

      As Denehy was indeed a player we will have to think about whether it qualifies via our strict standards, which change by whim.

  14. DotelMotel says:

    You could theoretically argue that the Mike Hampton was one of the great trades in Mets history not just for what that creep gave the Mets in 2000 but what he gave us as a result of leaving the organization… the Mets were able to draft a 3B named David Wright as compensation for losing Mr. Hampton to Colorado.

  15. Dave says:

    My top 5 trades, in order, are:

    Piazza
    Hernandez
    Darling
    Carter
    Olerud

    All of these guys were instrumental in getting the Mets to the post season one or more times and added great value to the team. Piazza and Hernandez stand out as “franchise changing” acquisitions.

    Of course, every trade should be looked at “holistically”…WAR comparison is part of that, but also short term needs (now for later trades), long term contributions, intangible impact on the fanbase/ franchise/ticket sales (e.g., Piazza), and also from the “you are there” perspective of the GM at the time the trade was made. The Nolan Ryan trade is on many “worst of all time” trade lists, but made sense from the GMs seat in 1971.

    Getting Staub from the Expos was a now for later deal, but Singleton was already one of the better hitters for the Mets at the time he was traded. Rusty had a few very good years with the Mets, and was a key guy in the 1973 playoff run, but his borderline HOF chops come from his years with the Expos and Tigers.

  16. If there’s a theme here, it is going for it, surrendering young talent, and getting back one really good/great player. One rule of thumb I have is the in multi-player deals, the team that acquires the single best player wins the deal.

    • Stubby says:

      We would make for great trading partners as I’d rather give up an aging star and bring back a boatload of young arms. For example, if the Dodgers were to send Matt Kemp to the Mets for Syndergaard, Tapia and Montero, I’d much rather be getting the young pitching than the nearly 30 year old outfielder, though he would (arguably and ankle injury aside) be the “single best player” in the deal. You win with pitching (and defense). If just one of those arms turns out to be so much as a #3 in the rotation, the team that got the pitching won the deal. Why aren’t the Tigers in the Series? Because Boston had the better bullpen, that’s why. Now, as it stands, I think the Mets (and possibly even you) would recognize that giving up three young arms for Kemp would be overpaying. A more even exchange might be Mejia and Syndergaard for Kemp. I’d probably do that deal. We ruined Mejia and I think Syndergaard is likely to blow out his arm (based on his history and repetoire) before he ever reaches the majors. But, for those same reasons, I doubt the Dodgers would do that deal.

      • Patrick Boegel says:

        You win with the best team, you need a lot of good everything. I know that Metsblog has been spewing a lot of the “Giants model” the last few years, but that is not necessarily the norm. Look at the two teams left standing now. Also not the norm that the two best teams from each league respectively make it to the end.

        But here we are, both can pitch, play d and most importantly SCORE.

        It is not as simple as Boston’s bullpen was better than Detroits. Boston’s team was.

        • Stubby says:

          Actually, it is as simple as Boston’s bullpen being better. In 3 of Boston’s 4 wins, the winning runs(s) scored in the 7th or later. Only in Game 5 did Detroit’s starter pitch poorly, easily offset by Peavy’s poor outing in Game 4. When Detroit had the lead late, the bullpen couldn’t hold it. When Boston had the lead late, they could. I don’t know what Metsblog or “Giants model” is/are. I do know the cult of the present is that its all about the offense (as evidenced in your comment by “most importantly SCORE”), but offense runs a very poor third in importance–maybe even fourth or fifth–for winning at baseball. Offense, certainly in the way most people think of it, is pretty near irrelevant to winning. Offense sells tickets, but pitching (and defense) wins titles. It has always been true and it always will be.

          • Patrick Boegel says:

            Oh, I see, so none of Boston’s hitters had anything to do with those wins, it was just Detroit’s bullpen being worse than Boston’s.

            I forgot they walked in all those runs.

  17. Eraff says:

    Jimmy…

    (3) 40 rbi guys < (1) 100 RBI guy….. ALMOST Always

  18. RAFF says:

    The most important thing is to have good DEEP pitching and good ballplayers in the field who can hit, run, play defense. DEPTH is huge. The Red Sox Bullpen this year was a “residual” of both Young and Veteran Pitching Depth. As they entered the year, Hanrahan (2013 off season trade) & Baily (2012 offseason acquisition), were thought to be their “anchors” The PRIZE BULLPEN which Emerged was Breslow, Tazawa, Uehara (all acquisions) and Brandon Workman (a rookie)… SO DEPTH played a big role. You can’t establish pitching depth by trading away pitchers.

  19. RAFF says:

    Jimmy- you and Michael “set the tone” and lead the conversation. Let me quote you as a preface to my remarks- “If there’s a theme here, it is going for it, surrendering young talent, and getting back one really good/great player”. My response would be the question: Sometimes, Always, or Never? By that, I mean to say- Isn’t it dependent on WHERE YOU ARE (with your roster)? You have stated, repeatedly- that the Mets have 30 million in EXTRA money, to put towards the 2014 roster. What you propose, in general terms, is that the Mets SHOULD surrender Low-priced/high ceiling talent in exchange for High-Priced PROVEN talent. OK- so you acquire a big name talent. You surrender 2-3 prospects- At least a couple of whom are “Top-End:”….. This with a roster that has 2-3-4-or even 5 On the Field Question Marks… And you eat up 80% of the money, which YOU state is actually available. So- You trade a couple or three or four prospects for a high impact player- Here’s what I have questioned about this “plan” a;; along. If you get the BIG Player with the Big COntract- how do you get a winning roster on the field?

  20. Ken H. says:

    1. Keith
    2. Gary
    3. Ron & Walt
    4. Piazza
    5. Ojeda **also for placing Schiraldi on the BoSox
    6. Knight
    7. Agee
    8. Olerud
    9. Clendenon
    10. El Sid

    I can’t believe Johan didn’t make the list…doesn’t even make the top 15.

  21. Don P says:

    The thing that always annoys me about Met trade history, is that we always hear about the awful trades; the Nolan Ryan trade, Amos Otis, Tom Seaver, etc. My issue is that I think the bad trades have paralyzed every GM since them. The Mets have made many great trades as we’ll. David Cone, Tommy Agee, Rusty Staub, Mike Piazza.

    Paralyzed GM’s lead to a situation worse than a marginal trade. The inaction is itself action. The pragmatic philosopher William James said “when you have a choice to make and don’t make it, that in itself is a choice.” I would rather see this Mets administration DO something, anything to get something done. Unless the trade is ludicrously bad, I just want to see something to see that they care, that they’re trying.

    • Michael Geus says:

      As always we are looking to help, which is why we will spend the winter writing about the great trades.

      I couldn’t agree more about the inaction. Playing it safe in life is a surefire path to mediocrity. I much rather see a team I root for attempt to win and fail than play it safe and ensure year-after-year middle of the pack finishes.

  22. Eraff says:

    Mets Management has been “Fan and Baseball Unfriendly” for major Swatches of time, with a few good stretches as an exception. “The Hodges Years” were followed by almost a decade of Pain……. Cashen became a one man Rescue mission. The Mets sieized the town from the Yankees…..then gave it back over another painfully long span.

    This particular regime has a few shorts spans of notable achievement….with long periods of stunning dis-attachment from anything that resembles Fan Friendly behavior.

    There are some good trades…many more bad trades. Those trades become time stamps for failure….. they represent all of the bad moves and non-moves and the total collapse of the Mets Franchise.

    • Michael Geus says:

      Having went through every single trade we have made in the last few weeks I am not so sure there are many more bad trades. I didn’t run a chart as I went, but there are many good ones, many bad ones, and many many ho hum ones.

      The issue as I see it is fans cling way too much to the bad ones.

      I’m not so sure why that is. Personally I find it strange, but I also find it strange when I hear a Mets fan talk of the team being cursed. Two World Championships and four World Series appearances is about average for the time of the teams existence, we are not the Cubs.

      One issue might be how much our current ownership hides our great history from the younger fan base. We’ve discussed that here, it is very weird how the team acts like the franchise began in 1986.

      Some great stuff happened before that, including the Mets tenures of numbers 37, 14, and 41, the only people to have their numbers retired.

      It’s strange how the Mets present themselves to the public.

    • Stubby says:

      Wow. If you hate them that much, maybe you’d be happier as a fan of some other franchise.

      I’ve been a Mets fan from the beginning. Ownership is ownership and, unless your owner is Marge Schott or something, that’s just the way it is. As a general rule–Boss Steinbrenner excepted–owners leave the baseball decisions to their baseball people. You think Fred’s telling Sandy who to trade for or who not to trade for? I think you’re mistaken.

      As for GM’s, there are good and bad throughout baseball. Having lived through the M. Donald Grant years, and supported the team without griping about it throughout, I can put up with almost anything. I hear some people say, oh, Grant was just in over his head and he is somehow a 2 on the evil scale of 1 to 10 while Fred’s a 12. Either they weren’t there or they don’t remember. M. Donald Grant was evil–Dick Cheney evil–Satan incarnate. He was. He didn’t just destroy everything the Mets had built, he did it on purpose. And then, forced out, walked away grumbling that we’d all see he was right, one day.

      Honestly, when I talk to disgruntled Mets fans, Fred’s big “sin” was that he built a new ballpark and jacked up ticket prices. I used to go to Shea every year and that place had become a toilet. Litterally. You could smell the urine from New Jersey. That started in the Grant years. They needed a new ballpark. And those aren’t cheap.

      “But…but…but…the Rotunda honors Jackie Robinson”. Oh, the humanity! Seriously?

      As GMs go, Steve Phillips was in over his head. And, once the Mets had rebuilt the organization, Omar gutted it. He made some good trades. He also made some godawful ones. His “Latin fetish” (not a term I invented) was a joke even among the Latino fans I know.

      Sandy has been methodically rebuilding the organization. There were/are money issues, but Sandy didn’t cause that. He’s building it the right way–from the bottom up, through the draft. I can’t think of a “bad” trade he’s made. Yeah, I know in the era of instant gratification, Sandy catches heat for the trades he doesn’t make–for not “going for it” (to use an expression)–for not trading away the farm system for a Justin Upton and what not. Those kinds of trades–at that stage of rebuilding–move you back, not forward.

      From the time Sandy came on board, I’ve been saying you can expect a competitive team in 2015 and a winner in 2016. And, unless someone screws it up, they’ll be competitive/winners for a decade. “But that’s too long to wait.” Well, call the Whaaaambulance. Better yet, talk to a Cubs fan. I bet they’d kill to know a winner was coming in 2016 after a century of losing. You want it yesterday? You want it NOW? Go root for the Red Sox.

  23. PeeKay15 says:

    Co-signed.

  24. PeeKay15 says:

    …..and by “Co-Signed” – I was attempting to reply to the McReynolds Myth comment by Mr. Boegel. Well said, sir.

  25. Eric says:

    Stubby—who is HATING the Mets here? Nobody! Everyone here LOVES the Mets. A Ballclub is not like a retailer—sure, I can spend LESS money with the Wilpons because they’ve done a bad job…But I can’t start shopping Elsewhere!…that’s the frustration of being a FAN!

    That frustration is almost universally expressed by Mets Lovers… Including almost 2 million less turnstile clicks each year and lower broadcast revenues. As fans, we know that we’re doing business with ownership that is detached from this team and this fan base…. they may be morally decrepit as well based on their financial manipulations. Anything close to this level of treatment from any other business would cause any patron to stop supporting that business….being a Fan is not that simple or easy.

    The Rotunda was originally a Temple for ex-Dodger Fans…Fred’s Friends. OK….. he needed to be told to put up some Mets Memorabilia? C’mon—– fans shouldn’t complain about THAT!?

    • Stubby says:

      “a Temple for ex-Dodger Fans”. Just because that’s what YOU think and that’s what YOU say doesn’t make it so. You got a quote of Fred Wilpon saying “This is a Temple for ex-Dodger fans”? No, I didn’t think so. Its something Wilpon haters invented in their own minds.

      What you’re spewing sounds an awful lot like hate to me. “Morally decrepit”? Seriously? Its baseball, dude. Get a grip. I get it. You want your pony now. Real fans understand that their team might not win every year. No team wins every year. That’s baseball. And there are millions of Mets fans who understand that Fred Wilpon is not on some personal vendetta against them.

      The same people I hear railing against Wilpon are the same people who thought Omar was the cat’s pajamas for trading away the farm system to give us what? Jon Adkins? Jason Vargas? Luis Castillo? They’re the same people who think you win championships by spending $85 million on a free agent and, if he doesn’t win it all for you, well, you just go out and spend 100 million on somebody else. Hey, its only money. And, since I bought a ticket once, I think technically that means its MY money. And I want a pony, dammit. I want a pony now!

      A “fan” loves their players for what they are and in spite of what they aren’t. You expect the worst and hope for the best. You may second guess a manager or discuss the pros and cons of trades past, present and hypothetical. What you don’t do is expend all your energies complaining about how your team sucks (“time stamps for failure”? “total collapse of the Mets franchise”?) and how its all the fault of that “morally decrepit” Dodgers fan who owns the team who, in spite of your constant whining, refuses to give you a pony now. That’s not a fan.

      A real fan would root for Ike Davis, for example; not run around talking about how we’ve got to get a “real” first baseman and stop hoping that Ike comes around. That’s the kind of thought process that made Nolan Ryan an ex-Met. Let’s be honest. When Nolan was a Met, he threw hard, but not all that well. He struck out a batter an inning, but he walked a batter an inning. His first year with the Angels, he led the league in wild pitches. He was a work in progress and we gave up on him. There’s nothing–I repeat, nothing–to lose in seeing what Ike can do in 2014. He’s turning 27, should be entering his prime production years, and the Mets are not just a first baseman away from a World Series. We’re not winning anything in 2014. Let’s just wait and see.

      Let me tell you what fans do. The Seattle Pilots had a shortstop who’s lifetime batting average would end up being .175…and he wasn’t even hitting that well for them. Did the fans cry “Get that bum outta here! You owners don’t care. You’re detached and decrepit.”? No. They started a fan club for their no-hitting shortstop–the Slugger Oyler Can fan club. The SOC it to me fan club. That’s what fans do.

      Being a fan is “not that simple or easy”? But I guess being an owner is. Just snap your fingers and, voila, that World Series ring is yours. Yeah, I guess Tom Yawkey really hated the Red Sox all those years. Closet Yankees fan. Never even tried to win. Detached from his team and his fan base. Right.

  26. Eraff says:

    The MORALLY DECREPIT comment is aimed at their manipulation through and with Bernie Madoff.

    I certainly do not feel that Fred Wilpon has a personal vandetta against me…. or any Met Fan. In fact, I don’t believe he he has much interest in me at all!

    Look…I think it’s OK for a FAN to feel that Ike should Go…I feel that way. It would probably be better for both parties. I don’t root against Ike or any player…. why would I root against a Met Player?

  27. Don P says:

    I believe that Alderson has done a mediocre job in his tenure. I’m willing to cut him some slack because of his marching orders from the owners. I disagree with your opinion of him, but at least that is worthy of debate. Defending the Wilpons is “A Bridge Too Far”. Their ownership has been an unmitigated failure. I could go into great detail about how their actions are not only hard on the fans, but also bad business decisions, since they degrade their product.

    They own a team in the #1 market in the country and they have sliced payroll to the # 22nd highest payroll in baseball. At $74,000,000, the salary is less than 1/3 the top salary, the Dodgers, and below the average payroll of roughly $100,000,000. That means that teams in smaller markets, with LESS merchandise revenue and without their own TV station, like Minnesota and Milwaukee are spending more than our Mets! Disgraceful !!!

    Payroll doesn’t cause or guarantee success, but it is strongly correlated. Spend some money, or SELL THE DAMN TEAM!

    • Stubby says:

      Just because the team they own is in New York doesn’t mean they have the money to spend like drunken sailors. Nor does it mean they have to. Nor does it mean they should have to sell the team because YOU don’t think they’re spending enough. And, personally, I’m in favor of revenue sharing as in the NFL. Obviously you think the rich big market teams should win every year and that its “disgraceful” when a small market team does well. Thank god those stinkin’ Pirates didn’t get into the Series, right? The Series is for big markets only, right?

      They were taken in by Maddoff. So were a lot of people. Little old ladies and pension fund managers. To be taken in by a con man/thief doesn’t make you “morally decrepit”. That they saw more “return” than the average Maddoff victim is to be expected. That’s kind of the way the scam works. You funnel a few bucks to the big fish so he’ll send more big fish your way. Little fish can’t do that. So the Mets cut back for a few years–a few years they weren’t going to compete anyway because there was NO farm system left at all once Omar was through with it–and they’ve begun putting the team on solid financial and organizational terms again.

      The only way you could say Sandy Alderson has done a poor or mediocre job is if you don’t understand baseball and if you forget what he inherrited. Its like people blaming Obama totally forgetting the mess Bush left him. We had no farm system. None. Now we do. A great farm system is, at the core, how we won in ’69 and how we won in ’86. Its also how all those free spending Yankees teams won; if you thought they won because of all the money they spent on free agents, you weren’t paying attention.

      And if your big gripe with Wilpon is spending, you have no sense of Mets history. Going all the way back to Joan Payson, they’ve always been what you might call “cheap”. I remember when they signed a young pitcher in ’63. If he came back a second year, he was due a bonus. He pitched great. They released him rather than pay the bonus. Then they tried to resign him. And, of all people, the Wilpons gave an open checkbook to Omar. Yeah, that sure worked out.

      You want your pony now? Go buy your own team and spend all you want. I bet you’d find yourself feeling differently when its YOUR money being spent. But don’t worry, we’ll all be standing there to yell at you what a POS you are cause you aren’t spending enough–how you should just SELL THE DAMN TEAM!!!

      Well, I can play that game, too. Either accept the Mets for what they are, Wilpons and all, or GO ROOT FOR THE DAMN RED SOX!

  28. Don P says:

    At least you’re passionate about your opinions. Payroll in the 60′s was a different animal, pre-free agency. Curt Flood was 1969-70 and Messersmith was ’75.

    Although I do not have year-by-year stats for payrolls in the 80′s, for the decade the Yankees had the highest payroll followed by the Angels and then the Mets. Yes, the Mets had the third highest payroll in that period.

    I don’t like the payroll system in baseball, I would prefer greater revenue sharing, but that is not the system. Given the system in place, the Mets should not have a payroll less than the small market teams. For $16 million/year we could have kept Reyes, solved our biggest offensive hole and still had a payroll below the league average

    • Stubby says:

      They didn’t have it. Why is that so hard to understand? I’d like a 75″ widescreen high def TV, myself, but its not in the budget. If my income is above the national average, does that mean I should go on a spending spree? Reyes and one more bat were not going to put the Mets in the thick of the pennant race in 2013. The major league Mets had so many holes going into 2013, that would have been money wasted. In the situation we were in at the time, you have to look at a guy like Reyes and ask yourself if he’s worth the risk of that kind of investment on a team going nowhere for a few more years. Is he a guy you can build a team around? I don’t think he is. He has a tendency to get hurt a lot, he doesn’t always give 100%, he’s not Mr. Wonderful in the clubhouse. Loads of talent, sure, but a guy you build a ballclub around? I don’t think so. It’s a tough call, but I don’t think so. Wright is. We locked him up without batting an eye because you know what he’s going to give you every day.

      As I said up thread, I fully expect Sandy will bring in a bat for next season. Probably via trade. In the process of rebuilding, this would be the year to do that. If he doesn’t, well, then I might re-evaluate his performance. But, so far, I can’t knock what he’s done.

  29. RAFF says:

    Stubby- You’ve stated your opinions, and I’m open to hearing you further expound… By your own logic – if it was a foregone conclusion that they weren’t moving forward with Reyes, and the decision had already been made far in advance of his departure>>> Shouldn’t the GM have TRADED Reyes and gotten something for him? A young BAT or some other prospect? I mean- Why did this brilliant GM let him just walk away for nothing? How does this factor into your “Performance Evaluation”?

    • Stubby says:

      I disagree with your interpretation that “it was a forgone conclusion” that was decided “far in advance”. As I said, it was a close call. There are lots of factors to consider. You’re also assuming that there were great offers to be had. I’m sure that, if the Dodgers GM had called and said “I’ll give you Kershaw and Kemp” to rent Reyes for the rest of the year,” he’d make that deal. But if they call and offer Jerry Sands or something, why would I make that trade? There were some offers I heard bandied about at the time. They were crap.

      Reyes had shown himself to be injury prone–was coming off an injury at the time–and was looking for lots of years and lots of dollars. I don’t think there were any trade offers worth considering at the time. So you play out the string and lay it out to him after the season. We were good to you, you were injured, here’s the best we can offer under the circumstances. As I understand it, it was as much about the years as the money. Regardless, the Mets were outbid on both by Miami who were just being insane at the time as part of their own little fraud in Florida.

      The Mets lost Reyes, but its untrue to say they “let him walk away for nothing”. They got compensation in the form of a draft picks. When you’re in a serious rebuilding situation–when the minor league cupboard is virtually bare–draft picks are gold. Lets see….a couple of fairly high draft picks or Jerry Sands. Hmm. I’ll take my chances with the draft picks, thank you very much.

      How does this factor into my “Performance Evaluation”? I thought Sandy did the best with that particular situation that he could have done under the circumstances. Nobody was offering “a young bat or some other prospect” for Reyes. We were being offered crap. Jerry Sands type crap (no offense to Jerry). And I keep using Jerry because that was one of the names I heard at the time. Now you could reasonably argue that Sands was better than most of what we tossed out there this season and I’d be hard pressed to argue the point. But he’s not the type of player you trade for when you’re rebuilding. You take the draft picks and take your chances.

      • Eddie Wilkowski says:

        Outbid? In order to be outbid don’t you have to make an offer? Didn’t Reyes state that the Mets/Alderson never made him an offer or even contacted him once the season ended. Revisionist history.

        • Stubby says:

          I’d say the revisionist history is all Reyes (or the Alderson haters). The parameters of a deal were known to both sides. Right off the bat Jose demanded 6 years and something over 120 mil. The Mets felt Jose was being a bit, lets say, “over exuberant” (out of his mind would be more accurate), so they dealt with his agent. 6 years was out of the question. The Mets would consider 5. For 5 years, they’d pay him about 80 mil. The agent came back saying Jose really wanted 6 years and it HAD to be at least $100 mil. Sandy countered with 5 years and something between 86 and 90 mil. The agent came back with 6 years and $106 mil. Now there’s the interesting turn. Normally, when you negotiate, one side comes up and the other side comes down and, hopefully, you meet in the middle. Here, Sandy came up…and Jose went up. Is that good faith negotiating? That’s when you know no deal is possible and you walk away. There was no piece of paper offer drawn up because they were never close to a deal. Sandy dealt with the agent and didn’t call Jose personally because Jose is nucking futs.

          Now, its been suggested that Sandy wasn’t dealing in good faith either–that he didn’t have even 80 mil to pay Jose in the first place (the Mets were living on loans from MLB at the time) and knew Jose wasn’t going to accept less that 100 in the second place, so the “negotiations”, such as they were, were perfunctory. That may well be the case and I can’t prove otherwise. I tend to think Sandy based his number on a basic per year figure Jose might have gotten through arbitration–and you have to offer arbitration to qualify for draft pick compensation. If you got a deal with those numbers, you could probably structure the deal so you’d pay more of the money when the team had more money to pay.

          But the bottom line to the whole thing is that Jose wasn’t going to accept anything less than $100 mil and 6 years from the Mets. And, with his injury history and all, that’s simply too much. I don’t think Jose’s a $100 mil ballplayer and, given that the Marlins were the only ones who made such an offer, I think most of major league baseball agrees. Hell, given that we’re still paying Bobby Bonilla, for crap’s sake, I wouldn’t have wanted to give him the 5 years and 80 mil. Nothing against Jose and all, but he did miss almost half of 2013 with yet another injury.

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